Their Eyes Were Watching God: Comprehension and Analysis Blog

   hurston

November 15, 2005 @ 3:46 am

I believe it is both. Though we haven’t gotten far into the novel yet, I have a feeling that Janie, in taking on the rights of a man, will thereby incorporate masculine characteristics into her personality. Already we see Janie’s quest for independence unfold when she runs away from Logan Killicks with Joe. The reson she does this is becuase she doens’t love him and also that he doens’t treat her like a “lady”. Joe, on the other hand, promises her that she would be treated as a queen. Even then, there are hints throughout that show that Janie is not satisfied with this role either. Tea Cake, I surmise, is the only one who can treat her like a lady and yet see her as an equal. Sarah-Claire Jordan

   hurston

November 16, 2005 @ 2:24 am

I agree with what Kara and Sarah Claire are both saying with a few exceptions. As far as sarah’s comment goes about Janie leaving Logan because she does not love him and because he does not treat her like a “lady”…i disagree. I agree with the first part but no the second. First of all i think that Janie was under the impression that love comes hand in hand with marriage. Going into the marriage there was no indication that she was willing to learn to love Logan, if she did not walk right into this love, it clearly wasnt there. As far as leaving Logan because he did not treat her like a lady…that is where i disagree. Being treated like a typical “lady” as seen during the time period is exactly what Janie does not want. She wants to be independent and have someone love and respect her for the person she is. She does not want a man who treats her as if they own her, but a man who seems her on the same level as he is on. I can already tell that Janie is a powerful person, she seems like she dances to her own song and is not afraid to take risks. I am sure we will see this when Tea Cake comes into the picture.

EMILY DESTEFANO!

   hurston

November 16, 2005 @ 2:38 am

I also believe that Janie is on a search of identity. However, I also think that she is also searching for independence. So far, Janie has not been able to make her own decisions in life; her nanny made her marry someone she does not love and has controlled all aspects of her life. She does not want to be oppressed under men much like how Logan begins to treat her like property. That is why she leaves him and goes to Florida.
In addition, I agree with the mule comparison you made, Kara. This symbol of the mule, I think will appear again throughout the novel as Janie goes through multiple husbands. I also remember reading something similar in some criticism I was searching through. I’m sorry to say I cannot remember where I found it from. Sorry.
Andy – 11-15-05

   hurston

November 16, 2005 @ 2:44 am

In response to what Kara siad about Logan treating Janie as a mule, I think it’s very interesting how throughout the books we’ve read this smester and throughout society, people need someone to look down upon and to heap their burden upon. This was certainly prevalent in “The Bluest Eye”, where Cholly, mocked and humliated beyond repair by snickering white hunters, neglects his family, fights violently with his wife, and ultimately rapes Pecola. Both of these novels have whites as the most damaging opressors for black women, follwed by black men. I haven’t read so far into the book as to hear any references to whites oppressing blacks excpet for when Nanny says “Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as fur as Ah been able tuh find out….de white man throw down de load and tell de nigger man tuh pick it up…He hand it to his womenfolks. De nigger woman is de mule uh de world so fur as Ah can see” (Hurston 14). In fact, this directly parallels Kara’s observation of the irony of Logan treating Janie like a mule and going out to buy a new one (which might also foreshadow his doubts of Janie’s loyalty!). ~Sarah-Claire

   hurston

November 16, 2005 @ 3:00 am

I agree with Emily’s comment. Janie seems like she is waiting for love to just magically bloom in her marriage. She has this harmonious image of marriage and love, which she comes to realize, does not exist. A couple months after Janie marries Logan, she says to Granny “‘Cause you told me Ah mus gointer love him, and, and Ah don’t. Maybe if somebody was to tell me how, Ah could do it” (Hurston 22). Janie doesn’t understand how to love which shows that she is not mature enough to be married; but she has no choice in the matter. On the matter of Janie wanting to be treated like a “lady”, I disagree. I don’t think Janie knows what she wants. She seems to be so naive and out of the world. She did not know for a long time that she was black and then with the image of love that she sees to be the world as, she just seems to out of it to get married and start a family. Janie is still like a child.

Carrie Pearce

   hurston

November 16, 2005 @ 1:32 pm

Steven W. Greco says . . . In response to Kara’s statement, “She embraces both her womanhood and blackness.” I would like to present a quote by literary critic Lorraine Bethel: “Black women writers have consistently rejected the falsification of the Black female experience, thereby avoiding the negative stereotypes such falsification has often created in the white American female and Black male literary traditions” (Interpretations 9). Is Zora Neale Hurston successfully rejecting the falsification of the Black female experience?

   hurston

November 16, 2005 @ 5:08 pm

I agree and dissagree with Carrie’s comment. I agree that Janie seems to be waiting for love to take hold in her marriage to Logan without much effort, but i disagree with the idea that Janie is still like a child. Janie is very grown up, she has escaped slavery and is a newly freed and independant black woman. When Logan begins to treat Janie like a slave, it becomes apparent that she no longer wants to be married to him, which ultametly is a very mature thing to do.
Alyssa D’Angelo

   hurston

November 16, 2005 @ 9:28 pm

I agree with what Carrie is saying about Janie still being a child. The evidence that you found makes a lot of sense. When Janie begins to have problems with her marriage, she runs away. This is very childish, which adds to how Janie is not mature. When she tries to talk to Logan she tries to hurt him and this seems very immature.

I also understand where Alyssa is coming from. The begininng foreshadows that Janie has accomplished a lot. In some aspects, I agree that Janie is very mature, but I don’t think that the book has proven that so far. Maybe that will come later in the novel.

–Cassie Covollo

   hurston

November 16, 2005 @ 10:24 pm

I agree with what Carrie said about how Janie is immature. I think that at this point in the story she is immature and niave. She believes that love comes with marriage, which is a very niave thought. She learns from her experiences with Mr. Killicks and that is why she leaves with Joe. She realizes that marriage doesn’t neccesarily bring love. I believe that, as the story goes on, Janie will continue to learn from her marriages, untill finally she reaches a realization and becomes who she is meant to be. I think that there Janie is already learning from her marriage with Joe. This can be seen when Joe cuts her off when people ask her to speak. He doesn’t even bother to ask her if she wanted to make a speech, he just says that she doesn’t. Janie says “She had never thought of making a speech and didn’t know if she cared to make one at all. It must have been the way Joe spoke out without giving her a chance to say one thing or another that took the bloom off of things. But anyway, she went down the road behind him feeling cold” (Hurston 41). This shows that Janie wants to have her own identity. she wants to hve her own opinion be known. When Joe speaks for her, she realizes this. There is also a connection to the metaphor of Janie wanting to be a tree in bloom. This represents that she wants to be like a tree, strong and independent. I think that this represents what Janie wants to be, while the other metaphor of being like a mule represents what she wants to aoid becoming. A mule is a beast of burdent. It is dependent on its owner to lead it to do work in the field. I think that these two metaphors will be used throughout the book.

 -Dan Melly

   hurston

November 16, 2005 @ 10:49 pm

In response to Kara’s comment - “Can we conclude from Janie’s current taste for freedom that her identity quest will take her towards a more manly identity?” - I would have to disagree. While Janie shows that she wishes to be treated as an equal, as all people should, she also believes she as a woman has a “place”: “You don’t need mah help out dere, Logan. Youse in yo’ place and Ah’m in mine” (Hurston 30). Janie does not want to participate in manly activities, such as shoveling manure, but would rather be in her rightful place, in the kitchen. I think that Janie likes the role of the woman, but does not want to be treated as an inferior just because of her gender. However, I do agree that Janie wants to, and will, progress to a stature similar to a man’s. She shows confidence and moxie, especially when talking to Logan with such authority. She is not intimidated by him and does not fear him; it is almost like she wears the pants in the relationship, without having to do any sort of manual labor. This characteristic will surely instigate a lively and vibrant future for Janie, which we see when she leaves Logan for Joe Starks. Can we assume that Janie’s quest for true love and freedom will lead us through yet another deserted marriage?

Emily Ward

   hurston

November 17, 2005 @ 12:04 am

It was interesting to see Kara’s questions and it seems like they are all related. We know that the story is Janie’s journey in search for her true self, or her journey toward self-realization. However, at the same time it is her becoming the hero. As we can see she has already acclaimed the respect and care of all of the members of Eatonville, and she has not done anything spectacular, except marry the “mayor” of the town. “The wife of the mayor was not just another woman as she had supposed. She slept with authority and so she was part of it in the town mind” (Hurston 44). Nevertheless, I do look forward to finding more about how she becomes the hero, because she does enjoy having her freedom. In her first marriage, she did not have this so she simply left; now already in this marriage we see that she might not have the freedom she wants. “A feeling of coldness and fear took hold of her. She felt far away from things and lonely” (Hurston 44). This showing that she may not be happy with Jody as her husband, which leads to Emily’s question. With this, I do think we can say she is in a quest for true love, and will be finding another person to love. This assumption can also be made after reading the back of the book where it says “Janie grows up expecting better treatment than she gets until she meets Tea Cake, a younger man who engages her heart and spirit…and gives her the chance to enjoy life…” With this I feel as if Janie will find another love, this one being a good fit for her, and one that helps her to find her true self, by doing the things she wants and enjoys. -Hunter Woron

   hurston

November 17, 2005 @ 1:32 am

I think it is very interesting that Kara has pointed out the masculine side of Janie. I think that this side of Janie has to do with her wanting to be respected equally, especially by her husband. Although Janie is a woman and she is black, she doesn’t want to live like her Nanny did as a slave. With her first husband, Logan, Janie did not feel it was her responsibility to work along side him: “You don’t need mah help out dere, Logan. Youse in yo’ place and Ah’m in mine” (Hurston 30). Later with her second husband, Janie feels like she isn’t being respected from Joe: “It must of been the way Joe spole out without giving her a chance to say anything one way or another that took the bloom off of things” (Hurston 41). In the beginning of Janie’s story, she felt she wanted to be respected equally, but now she doens’t stand up for herself. Maybe Janie wants to be respected but doesn’t know how to have people respect her. Is this part of her journey for her identity and where she stands on this issue?

Nicole Leva

   hurston

November 17, 2005 @ 2:28 am

As I read over the many reponses that people have given I think many people bring up some interesting points. Out of all of them I think i would have to Agree with Hunter’s statement the most. He spoke about Janie’s quest for love and how it is going to continually be unfufilled until, assumingly, she meets Tea Cake. “A feeling of coldness and fear took hold of her. She felt far away from things and lonely” (Hurston 44). This quote just proves that she will be unhappy in her marrige to Jody as she was in her first one. She will most likely leave Jody aswell because she will not feel as though she is getting the correct attention. I am anxious to see how the upcoming events in Janie’s life will turn out because I want to see how her story unfolds.

-JC

   hurston

November 17, 2005 @ 2:43 am

I believe that one of the keys to understanding Janie in “Their Eyes Were Watching God” is the time period in which the novel takes place. The scene is set during the time of the Harlem Renaissance, when many African Americans came to the north, searching for what promised to be a new beginning to their lives. Many came seeking to achieve what was thought to be the American Dream. The job opportunities that supposedly waited for them, were supposed to be accomplanied by riches that would help to turn their lives around for the better. Unfortunately, this turned out not to be the case. However this is the point where Janie seperates herself from the rest of the group. She was not going to let anything squash her dreams, especially not because she was a woman. When Janie realized that her marriage with Logan was not going to work, she left him and found another man named Jody. Jody was a wealthy man, and the two decided to move to an all black town, where Jody became mayor. We view Janie as a hero because even under trying circumstances she has managed to live the American Dream. Janie has found love, wealth, and a fine home as well. One critic states, “The high value that Janie places on doing what she wants rather than what family and society want is, of course, a strong part of the white American dream,” (Hattenhauer 4). What makes Janie unique is the fact that she has, so far, done what so many others could not.

-CHRIS DEBELLIS

   hurston

November 17, 2005 @ 2:58 am

The idea of comparing Janie to a mule, as well as women in general is very interesting. It shows how men of the time felt about women, and the status they thought they deserved. Something I thought was strange though, was that Logan was going to buy the mule for janie. On page 27-28 Janie says, “Mah husband is gone tuh buy a mule fuh me tuh plow”(Hurston). This seems somewhat ironic because she is thought of as a mule, but yet she is going to be the one using the mule to plow with. During these chapters, I am somewhat glad that she is defending herself, and telling Logan that certain jobs are for him. In a way, this independence and self-confidence is good, but she could also be somewhat spoiled.

-Andrew Portolese 

   hurston

November 17, 2005 @ 3:00 am

I strongly agree with Debellis’ opinion of Janie.  She successfully separated herself from the usual black women of the time, and conquered the white American dream. While reading the blog, I was reminded of the narrator in the short story we read, “Like Glass.”  She seemed to be the opposite or foil of Janie.  The narrator (an ex-wife), could not get over the loss of her husband and was living in the past.  She was beginning to seem almost psychotic and her mental state was suffering. On the other hand, Janie was very strong and determined, and managed to move onto a better life with Jody, without letting the loss of Logan get in her way.  Janie is the perfect example for women of all races to admire and look up to.  Her ability to find a better life does indeed make her seem almost like a hero.      

THE KING- JAY REIN